Scutellinia crinita

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Scutellinia crinita

Postby Dave H-Tranter » Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:06 pm

Scutellinia crinita - does anyone know if this is a species we should be looking out for and is it more common than the usual S. scutellata. I key out my finds as best I can using several sources but is there a definitive key for this vague area. Thank you indeed.

PS. Tony Carter of the North West Fungus Group informs me that you (Mal Greaves) are the man in the know - nudge, nudge

Cheers

FP Dave
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Re: Scutellinia crinita

Postby Mal Greaves » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:33 pm

Hi Dave
Just back from a holiday in France.
I can categorically state that there is no definitive key for this area of Scutellinia :lol:
The European mycologists consider S crinita a good species and Benat Jeannerot THE Scutellina man has said that S scutellata is a rare species and what is recorded as that is likely to be S crinita. I have forgotten the exact figures but he said he examined a few hundred specimens recorded as S scutellata and not one was correct. The (supposed) differences are the length of hair, over 1500 S scutellata up to 1500 S crinita (also usually alternating long and short). The spores should be slightly narrower at the ends and with larger warts and ridges for scutellata. I have found specimens that have long alternating hairs and larger ornamentation but are narrow at the ends and others with the shorter hairs but more obtuse ends :oops:
Although Brian Spooner and Yeo felt the species should be synonomised I personally I think there could well be two species but the differences are too close to call on many occasions. I tend to record as S scutellata only if the hairs are well over 1500 and will leave it to others to argue about.
What I can say is that during the early part this year I found 27 samples (excluding re-finds) and only 4 were S scutellata/crinita so the ratio of 10 : 1 (FRDBI) or 8 : 1(CATE) compared with any other species is wrong.
Mal
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Re: Scutellinia crinita

Postby Dave H-Tranter » Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:46 pm

Oh by heck, this is a tinker. Thank you so much for raising this and indicating another error many of us have been making - what can we do? My question would be though, does anyone ever consider variation within a species and if so where does the line get drawn. I remember an episode with Sarcoscypha and the excipular hairs being straight or curly was an indicating factor as to species but having since spoken to a very fine mycologist who has found both types of hair on the same cup I am further bewildered by what transpires in the micro world of fungi. Tis all very frustrating for we amateur naturalists but I suppose to advance we do need to know so tis par for a very uneven course. Thank you again, very enlightening (disappointingly so ha, ha).

Really appreciated.

FP Dave
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Re: Scutellinia crinita

Postby Leif Goodwin » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:36 pm

If you look at the Leccinum genus, you'll see some very eminent mycologists separated out numerous 'good' species, but subsequent DNA studies have indicated that many of them are no more than variants of other species. Sometimes the environmental factors, or host organism, can give rise to these variations. Increased moisture can cause swelling of microstructures for example, thus some consider many Peziza species to be conspecific. All us lesser mortals can do is use the latest literature and in the case of genuinely rare species, send a sample to Kew so that they can reach a more authoritative conclusion.
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Re: Scutellinia crinita

Postby Mal Greaves » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:32 am

I am with you on this Leif especially with respect to Scutellinia. There are enough species with easily definable spore/hair characteristics without looking for the subtleties of some new ones which have differences that are so small and subjective. DNA analysis can go either way sometimes (re)merging species and on other occasions splitting well known and recognisable genus
Mal
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